Has a Coup Occurred in the United States of America?

crossposted at Motley Moose

In the spring of 2001, I had to go to a training with the other brand new Child Protection Investigator. Joe and I were hired within weeks of each other and we were force to attend the same computer system training (SSIS).

I hated Joe on sight. He was a retired Master Sgt in the US Army. I am pretty sure he hated me on sight as well. I was his antithesis. I am an out lesbian and a complete lefty.

The dreaded day came and we were off to Crookston. It is about a two hour drive from Walker and we started talking. Pretty soon we came to the topic of politics. I was fairly amazed to find that we agreed on many things. We were both kind of wrapping up the heinous assaults on our Constitution, and came to our conclusions. At the very moment I shouted the right wing caused this, Joe emphatically stated that the left wing were the culprits. Both of us were stunned into silence, and we both began to laugh.

We blew out all of the stereotypes about each other and became good friends. We always had each others back and we worked well together for almost three years. Just before he left the county in 2004, he took me aside and told me that I helped him become a Democrat, and that he was voting for John Kerry. I told I didn't do a thing, bush did everything he could to lose Joe's vote. He laughed hard. I haven't talked to him for a long time and I miss him.

One other thing Joe told me has stayed with me over the years. We were talking about who would be used to turn on American citizens, if bush (or anyone) tried to overturn the Constitution and declare martial law. This has been a concern of mine since Reagan, but that must wait for another diary.

I thought that the military would be used, but Joe disagreed with me. He asked me who has already fired upon American citizens and do so every day. The answer, police and other state and federal domestic law enforcement. Joe was furious that the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) can come into any home without a warrant, to see how much game a person has in their home, and if they have the proper fishing or hunting licenses. I pointed out that the DEA has similar powers.

This conversation took place before 9/11/2001.

I have been worried since 2002 that bush will create a crisis or take the opportunity of a crisis to suspend the Constitution, declare martial law, and successfully complete a coup in the US. I really thought that this would happen in 2004. I have been worried about this lately. Thanks to blues for the heads up on the following.

Check out Naomi Wolf's website.

(UPDATE)

I decided to add a bit from an article Naomi Wolf wrote for the Guardian in April 2007 called Fascist America, in 10 easy steps.

From Hitler to Pinochet and beyond, history shows there are certain steps that any would-be dictator must take to destroy constitutional freedoms. And, argues Naomi Wolf, George Bush and his administration seem to be taking them all.
(snip)
If you look at history, you can see that there is essentially a blueprint for turning an open society into a dictatorship. That blueprint has been used again and again in more and less bloody, more and less terrifying ways. But it is always effective. It is very difficult and arduous to create and sustain a democracy - but history shows that closing one down is much simpler. You simply have to be willing to take the 10 steps.

As difficult as this is to contemplate, it is clear, if you are willing to look, that each of these 10 steps has already been initiated today in the United States by the Bush administration.
(snip)

  1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy
  2. Create a gulag
  3. Develop a thug caste
  4. Set up an internal surveillance system
  5. Harass citizens' groups
  6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release
  7. Target key individuals
  8. Control the press
  9. Dissent equals treason
  10. Suspend the rule of law

I have not read her books, but remembered this article after reading blues diary at mydd.



Display:


I might just be losing it.... (none / 0)

But it doesn't help when I see video like that. I know they are long and I will try to write up a synopsis tomorrow, but I found Naomi to be very interesting and terrifying.

Sorry to post and sleep, but I am mostly seeing the backs of my eyelids and had best lay down.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 04:58:23 AM EST

I'm praying for an election right now (2.00 / 1)

... at this rate, with the financial crisis, we may not see one.

Obama '08

Please?


yo mir kennen
by RisingTide on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:02:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Narcissists (2.00 / 1)

Like GWB, McCain, etc. are like vampires, they often reach out from beyond the grave to attack the living. So its a legitmate fear for anyone who has dealt with them. The worst never leave peacefully. You always have to watch out with them, they are SUCH vindictive people.

But at this point, the right, their base, have lost SO much support that they could not get away with it.

They avoided Hillary and her universal healthcare, they are going to have to be content with that victory for now. Lets just pray that they don't turn violent. The easy money is going to be hard to give up for them, which is probably the reason for the timing of the "bailout".

I've always been convinced that that was the main force driving our presence in Iraq, etc. Money. They probably split the spoils.


Health Care: WHY do we pay MORE and GET LESS?
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/con tent/full/hlthaff.28.1.w1/DC1
by architek on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 07:39:52 AM EST

their wall street friends wanted the money (2.00 / 1)

... they got the money, whcih was fine.

but it didn't help. England didn't help. we all push the string,a nd it don't fucking help.

The world is ending, maybe?


yo mir kennen
by RisingTide on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:03:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: their wall street friends wanted the money (none / 0)

I think that the world we have known is definately ending. The only question is, what are we going to do about it? Crisis brings opportunity. What will we do with this opportunity?


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 04:08:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Narcissists (none / 0)

I have always thought of them more as rapists, but vampires is a good metaphor.

I want desparately to be wrong. I am also willing to look like a lunatic in the meantime.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:06:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A coup DID occur (2.00 / 1)

Bush stole the presidency in the first place, not with the military or cops, but with lawyers.

If Bush really does want to stay in power, then he's doing a great job of acting like he hates being there and doing the president's job.

No, I don't think that he's going to use a coup of any sort to stay in power.  What he's going to do is raid the henhouse as much as he can to give himself and his friends political and financial compensation for the fact that the party is soon going to be over.  "One for the road," as it were.

Expect pre-emptive pardons of people like Ted Stevens and Karl Rove, for example, and for Paulson to bail out Goldman Sachs for billions and billions while working some way around the golden parachute problem.

Obama has telegraphed that he'll probably only investigate the previous administration if there's evidence lying around the Oval Office when he gets there (as he has a lot of important work to do right away in fixing the country), so I expect a lot of shredding and redacting of documents to be going on between November 5 and January 20.

So no, there will be no additional coup this year.  The coup already took place, and we'll be paying for it for generations.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 10:16:18 AM EST

you're assuming that there will be an election (2.00 / 1)

... I'm praying that there will be, but then again, hope springs eternal.


yo mir kennen
by RisingTide on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:04:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How could they stop it? (none / 0)

What could possibly cause a national freeze in elections?  How would Bush garner even close to the national support among law enforcement agencies to put the kaibosh on every precinct of every county in every state in the nation?


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:17:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

martial law will do a lot of things... (2.00 / 1)

and this financial crisis may lead to a banking holiday. What better time to shut the whole country down, seriously?

He needn't get the law enforcement, if he can get the military to put on a substantial show of force.

And many Democratic folks would just bend over and take it -- look at our now failed bailout!

remember that many law enforcement types are... pack animals and conditioned to obey authority.

If the economy goes under, expect many law enforcement types to go rogue in outlying areas (i.e. beholden to the four big landowners and not obeying the law).


yo mir kennen
by RisingTide on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 01:49:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The military? (2.00 / 1)

The military that's currently tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan?

The military that's sworn to uphold the constitution?

The military that's given 6x as much money to Obama as McCain?


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 02:53:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The military? (none / 0)

Agreed. I do not think that the military would turn on it's own country in 2008. I think that things have changed substantially since Kent State. Our military is much better educated and the military leaders are a different breed than they were 40 years ago.

Law enforcement is another story. I am much more concerned about local, state and federal law enforcement. After the horror show of the republican convention, I have no doubt that law enforcement could be a threat to the populace.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:02:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't see it. (none / 0)

Law enforcement is sworn to protect their communities.  For the most part, people don't go into policing unless they have a civic mind.  The ones that are there just to bust skulls and swing guns around usually don't last long.

There's a lot of questions about what happened in St. Paul.  A lot of the "cops" were not local, and some believe that they weren't cops at all, but Blackwater-type mercinaries.

I was there and I talked and joked with a number of police that I know to be locals, and they said that they hadn't seen the sort of "action" we saw on TV.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:07:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't see it. (2.00 / 1)

There's a lot of questions about what happened in St. Paul.  A lot of the "cops" were not local, and some believe that they weren't cops at all, but Blackwater-type mercinaries.

Wow. Hadn't even thought of that.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:32:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, hard to believe, but... (none / 0)

...doesn't it seem entirely plausable?


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:39:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah, hard to believe, but... (2.00 / 1)

Yeah. You have given me an entirely new thing to worry about. Thanks;~P.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 04:05:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No problem. Keep the change. :) (none / 0)

C'mon, Blackwater is toast once Obama takes over.  How can you have a rabidly pro-United States mercinary organization that can't find work for the United States?


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 04:07:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

there has been a deliberate campaing (none / 0)

to get right wing demagogues and dominionists into west point, into the airforce academy.

the only question is how many high up people they've managed to subvert.

federal law enforcement scares me -- they fired all the competent ones!!


yo mir kennen
by RisingTide on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:22:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: there has been a deliberate campaing (none / 0)

Seeing that a great many upper level military leaders have left while under bush causes me additional concern. I agreed that the military Joe and I were talking about in April of 2001 is a different military than we have now. But that actually cuts both ways, as I believe many have lost faith in the republicans. We are seeing greater numbers of military voting Democrat than ever before.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 04:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

there has been a deliberate campaign (none / 0)

to get Right wing dominionists appointed to West Point, among other congressional perks. yup. your congress at work.

I do not doubt for one red minute that most of them are loyal -- I worry about the ones who aren't... and the ones who will cower from authority.


yo mir kennen
by RisingTide on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:21:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It'd be Crimson Tide all over again (none / 0)

Jeez, that movie even got the races right.

Anyway, we'll see.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:24:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A coup DID occur (2.00 / 1)

I agree. totally, completely and absolutely agree that the real coup occured in 2000. I have never even been able to put the word president alongside the idiots name. I can't even capitalize his name, because to me, he is just a bush.

I hope you are right and that I am being a chicken little. It's just that the sky looks really bad right now.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 02:55:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gonna be a bright sunshiney day (none / 0)

The harder we work to make sure this is a blowout, the harder it's going to be for them to steal this thing, by whatever means.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:22:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gonna be a bright sunshiney day (2.00 / 1)

Absolutely agreed.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:35:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's slangin' her book (none / 0)

She brings up some good points and you can tell by listening to her that she's an incredibly intelligent lady, but overall Wolf's job is to sell books.  She literally just had a new book come out, so it's no surprise that she's out selling conspiracy theories.

I watched her most recent interview (the one above) the other day, and I lost track of how many times she said "I was told this last night" and then went on to spout some info that she admitted that she hadn't verified.  If she was really interested in facts and information, you'd think she could take the time to verify some of these facts before airing them on the radio and trying to scare the shit out of people.

Finally, Bush wants nothing to do with the job anymore.  He broke everything and has no idea how to fix it and wants someone else to take the blame.  He's the Decider, not the Repairer.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 01:55:00 PM EST

Re: She's slangin' her book (none / 0)

I may be of the tinfoil hat brigade, but I do feel that the republicans have been eroding our Constitution since Nixon. It is odd that the same players are still in the field 40 years later. I absolutely hope that Wolf and the rest of us worriers are batshit crazy. I will however, breath a sigh of relief on January 20, 2009.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 02:46:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She's slangin' her book (none / 0)

I agree with you wholeheartedly that there has been a concerted effort by the Republicans to erode our rights, but my point was that Wolf seems more interested in generating book sales through alarmism than addressing the actual reality of things.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 03:53:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She's slangin' her book (none / 0)

I need to read both of her recent books. She may be an alarmist, but I am glad she is sounding the alarm.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 04:00:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Militia (2.00 / 1)

The founding fathers built in protections in the constitution against dictators and those who would institute martial law/the army against citizens.

This election year with Obama's ground game we have all banded together toward a common goal...changing our government.  But if there was any kind of play to take our right to vote (our peaceful revolution) we could easily band together for another purpose.

We are much more protected against dictatorship this year than we have been for many years because of the bonds we have formed across the country.  


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 02:19:58 PM EST

Re: Militia (none / 0)

Agreed. I actually do not think that it would work either. However I knew Iraq wouldn't work and the idiot did it anyway.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 02:36:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lord yes (2.00 / 1)

Obama's theoretical army is bigger than that of some nations.

It would be a serious mess, and I don't see what's so great about being in charge of the United States right now that would make Bush fight for it.


The pebbles have voted and the avalanche has begun.

President-Elect "That One"

by Dracomicron on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 02:55:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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